Showing the Love... Another 2x2 Excommunication
Once again, the 2x2 church demonstrates just how screwed up it is.
Take a listen to the audio clip.
This is what they do to one of their own members who believes that other Christians can be saved outside of the 2x2 church.
This was handled by an elder, Doug Carlson. Texas overseer Lyle Schober apparently didn't have the fortitude to do it himself.
Doug: ... I'm not here to, to go into that at all. It's just that we've... from listening to your testimonies and prayers that we're not on the same... the same beliefs.
Doug: And uh, until you can make up your mind, we're just gonna have to ask you if you do come to our homes that you not take part in testimony or prayer.
Doug: And, if you can't abide by that, then we'd have to ask you not come at all.
Brandon: Okay. That's fine.
Doug: We want you two to be happy.
Brandon: I forgot to start the thing. Okay. I'm sorry. What was that?
Doug: We just want you two to have as much happiness as you can, and if you're getting married, you should be of likeminded, or you're gonna have a divided home.
Doug: And, we all three, and our wives, think of you as, as a son in our family.
But, we can tell that we're not on the same wavelength.
So, this is what we've talked to Lyle and Clarence and us three, and we just thought it would be best to come and visit with you this way...
Doug: ... so that we're all on the same page.
Brandon: Alright. I guess the, the question is, like, what is it that has led you to this conclusion?
Doug: Well, I think it's evident with, with your testimonies and your prayers.
Brandon: But, what content of them is concerning for...
Doug: Then we get into a big argument and we're not...
Brandon: No, I'm not... it's not an argument, it's just that, you know, an establishment of faith, like, for us to be able to...
Doug: We're not gonna get into that. Lyle has tried talking with you. Clarence, Clarence spent two days at your place.
Brandon: Yea, he told me ...
Doug: He said, "when I left, Brandon just didn't, is not the same likeminded as we are." Our ministries, the way they go forth, homeless ministry, meeting in the home.
Brandon: There's nothing wrong with deciding to do that. I never said that, you know, they were wrong for doing that.
Doug: But, anyway, that's, that's, that's our position, and we do wish you the best, and our homes are open. We still wanna be friends, but that's the request that we have.
Brandon: Okay, so, um, one thing that, uh, I guess...
Well, I guess the question that I have is, uh, when Clarence was here, one thing that was, uh, that we were discussing was,
he said that he believes that, um, that true Believers, the Believers on Jesus, that, you know,
God can save them outside of goin' to meetings, but that his personal belief is that, um, God would lead them to meetings.
And, it's not one that's Biblically based at all, but I was just gonna...
I know that was one thing that we could not agree on at all.
What is your take on that?
Doug: Brandon, I'm not here to talk Scripture, or to discuss it, or argue it, because...
Brandon: But, that's... but if we don't have our faith based on Scripture, then nothing of what we believe means anything.
Doug: Brandon, I said we weren't... I didn't come here to discuss and debate Scripture, because we've already done that, in our home, with the workers, and we got no-place with it.
Brandon: Well, I... what Scripture was it?
Doug: Brandon, is there a problem with what I'm saying?
Brandon: Well, there's a very concerning... I mean, it is very concerning when you're willing to make a large decision based off of nothing Biblical.
Brandon: And, so, that's... I mean, I'm fine if you guys wanna do that, I'm perfectly fine with that, if you guys have your own home,
and I can respect your beliefs and all, but, it leaves me wondering.
It's like, well, you know, was I not one of you the whole time?
Which, you know, or, what was it that caused this question, this questioning.
Doug: Whatever we say, you're not going to accept.
The Holy Spirit is the one that is going to be speaking to you.
Doug: And, He'll answer your questions.
Because you didn't accept what Lyle, Clarence, or even Karen and I when we were talking to you.
So, it's in vain to waste any more words on it.
Brandon: So, you're saying that God's word returns void in this case?
Doug: That's not what I said, and that's why we're not going to get into a word discussion with you, Brandon.
Brandon: But, that's what you were saying. It's like you're saying that it's going to...
Doug: All we're doing it arguing, so I think we need to go.
2nd 2x2 Male: Alright.
Doug: And that's what we said we weren't going to do. Brandon, good day to you.
2nd 2x2 Male: Don't forget, we love you.
Brandon: Oh, I believe you. I believe you still love me.
Doug: We do. We do.
Brandon: I'm concerned because I don't understand anything of what's going on, but I don't have to understand to accept it.
2nd 2x2 Male: Well, like Doug said, the Holy Spirit will guide you in the way you should go.
Brandon: Okay. Well, if you guys want anything to eat, there's...
2nd 2x2 Male: Inaudible.
Female Voice: Alright, bye.
-- end of recording
Let's break this down to it's basic elements:
Elder: We want our ball, you're not playing by our rules.
Defendant: Which rules are you referring to?
Elder: Just give us our ball so we can go home. We aren't going to play with you anymore.
Defendant: Uhh... okay
Elder: We will never play with you again until you let us win all the time.
Defendant: Is that fair? Couldn't you just tell me your rules.
Elder: We make them up as we go. Just give us our ball and we won't play with you anymore.
Check out these books about the 2x2 church!
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Click on the book covers to learn more about each book.
Cult to Christ: The Church With No Name and the Legacy of the Living Witness Doctrine
Elizabeth was born and raised in a nameless and secretive worldwide cult that claims exclusive origin from the New Testament apostolic ministry and blatantly describes all other churches as 'false'. A fourth generation member, she professed faith at the age of sixteen and fully intended to remain there, even when she discovered that the system she believed in was based on a lie. A love story both human and divine, a journey from spiritual bondage to freedom in Christ; this confronting and deeply personal account gives an inside perspective into the mindset of cult members, and reveals the fear and trauma associated with being forced to investigate your own beliefs even if it could mean destroying the very foundations of everything you believe.
The author, Elizabeth Coleman, is one of our moderators at the TLC Forum!
Reflections: The Workers, the Gospel and the Nameless House Sect
This is the first of a series exploring the varied experiences of those who have come out of a supposedly nameless, world-wide religion
which has managed to elude the attention of outsiders for much of its history. The accounts collected here have been written by
former members, worker/ministers, and relatives. Together, they present a fascinating and rare glimpse into a religious system all
but unknown to outsiders. Most of the former members who have written here were passionate believers in "The Way," before being
jarred into reexamination by encounters with serious issues and inconsistencies.
Far from being a clinical examination, these accounts are sometimes stirring, even heart-rending, and always bear the stamp of genuine personal experience.
Reinventing the Truth: Historical Claims of One of the World's Largest Nameless Sects
They meet in homes and in rented halls, presided over by itinerant preachers known as "Workers." This religious fellowship usually goes under the
names listed above, although its members vigorously deny that the group bears any name. As to its origins, the group positions itself as being a
direct continuation of "the New Testament Church." And even though they deny having any organizational structure, the activities of this nameless
sect are world-wide in scope.
It is often very difficult for the outsider to gain any concrete knowledge of this group's doctrine, structure, or history.
Reinventing the Truth
examines these issues, focusing on the historical explanations the group has offered for its origins.
The Church Without a Name
This secretive group has been called by various names over the years: The Two-by-Twos, White Mice, Black Stockings, Pilgrims, The Meeting, The Workers, The Truth, the Secret Sect, Die Namenlosen, Les Anonymes and many others.
But they claim no name of their own. Outside of the group, little has been known of the ways and the diverse belief found among believers in this homespun religion.
Here is a book that exposes the origins and the unwritten traditions of the Two-by-Twos.
The purpose of this book is to summarize the teachings of this religious group in order to encourage people to draw nearer to and obey God.
It is an attempt to bring to light what the workers have tried to hide from the public for over a century.
These are doctrines and behaviors that have been observed and learned by an ex-member whose family has been part of the group for five generations, since the founding of the religion in the late 1890s.
Reflected Truth: Former Workers and Followers Unmask Life in a Large, Little-Known Sect